Tag: Keith Winter

Chairman's Updates

Dee4Life members’ meeting – 18th March

Dear members,

I would like to kick off this month’s update by thanking all of you who responded to our recent survey. Your answers will help determine our future strategy and efforts to ensure that Dee4Life is as representative of the views of our members as possible.

My colleagues Andrew Pyke, Scott Lorimer and Ross Day have led on this project and are currently analysing the data before we consider your contributions as a board. We will then share the results widely, initially at the members’ meeting on Monday 18 March. As I said a few weeks ago, this meeting will take place on Microsoft Teams. This is in response to a request to occasionally hold meetings online to allow more members – particularly those who live outwith Dundee – to take part.

Members can join this meeting from 6.50pm for a 7pm start on Monday 18 March. An invitation will be sent out towards the end of next week.

We are aware that some of you may never have used Teams before so please get in touch with any concerns you may have. Please also let us know of any topics you would like us to cover during the meeting.

You can get in touch by emailing contact@dee4life.com.

We will send a reminder with a full agenda before the event but, in addition to sharing the survey results, we will also update you on our efforts since the Dee4Life AGM back in November. There will then be an open discussion, with members invited to share their thoughts based on what they’ve heard.

I am sure that the welcome progress evidenced in the submission of Planning Permission in principle for the Camperdown stadium development will feature heavily in discussions and I hope that we will be able to update you on the questions sent to the club via our Supporters Liaison Officer at this time.

I look forward to welcoming as many of you as possible to this meeting and to hearing more about your views on both Dee4Life and the club.

Regards

Keith Winter
Dee4Life Chair

Chairman's Updates

Dee4Life members’ update

With the team performing better than we have seen in sometime, notwithstanding some poorer results recently, the new stadium proposals, with the Planning Permission in Principle application now submitted, and the recently announced partnership with Burnley, there is a lot of excitement around the Dundee support just now.

The Burnley link is particularly intriguing to me as I spent several years living in the Lancashire town. My wife and I still have friends down there, and I was last at Turf Moor earlier this season. It is a fantastic club from a great part of the world, and I hope that this partnership delivers for all parties.

The Dee4Life board is obviously delighted by the prospect of Dundee taking steps forward on and off the park but – as I outlined last month – the founding principes of the Trust mean we must always ask questions about developments, even those that appear exciting and potentially transformative.

With that in mind, we have submitted a series of questions (see below) relating to the stadium development. I hope that the club takes the time to consider these and provides answers that will go some way to addressing the concerns that members tell us they still have about the Camperdown plan.

At our November AGM we agreed to hold a follow up meeting in the first quarter of 2024, and I can confirm that this will take place on the evening of Monday 18 March. Following on from another suggestion, this will be online to allow a wider selection of members than usual to attend. I look forward to seeing as many of you as possible then. Further details, including how members can join the meeting, will follow in our next update.

Ahead of that discussion, we want to gauge the views of members about how the Trust and the club and to find out a bit more about you and how we can best represent you. To this end, we have compiled a short survey which members will find in their email inbox. I would be most grateful if you could take a few minutes to fill in before the end of February.

Thanks for your time and I am hopeful February gives us more league points.

Regards
Keith Winter, Chair

Questions submitted to the Dundee FC board via club SLO John Burke:
1. When will the full planning application likely be submitted? Or any submissions required by the grant of the current PPIP under any attached conditions, notably suspensive conditions?

2. Is the target of football being played in the new stadium by summer 2025 still valid given the fact that planning permission in principle still has to be determined?

3. What are the phasing arrangements for the delivery of the elements contained in the development mix? Will the football facilities be included in the first phase or is the stadium contingent on the successful delivery of the other, revenue-generating elements?

4.Will Dundee FC own the stadium? If not, will the rental terms be set at a commercial rate or on other terms, such as a set percentage of the club’s turnover?

5. If the club is not to own the stadium, will the club pay more in rent than the current arrangements at Dens Park?

6. The ONS notes that private commercial construction costs have risen by around 30% in the past seven years, including approximately 14% since December 2021. Interest rates have risen significantly in this time too. How has all this impacted on the affordability of the project?
What protections are in place for the club should DBPH experience financial difficulties that prevent the project from being delivered, or the company to cease trading?

7. Records from the Land Registry suggest that both the Camperdown site and Dens Park have been used as security against loans obtained from the Soho Green finance company. Is this correct, what has this finance been used for and have the loans been repaid? What guarantees can be given that Dens Park will not be lost if repayments are not met?

8. Is finance in place for the new stadium development and is this in the form of investment or lending? If it is the latter, are the club liable for repayments of this?

9. Whilst the planning application process and subsequent development takes place what are the arrangements and investments planned for Dens Park?

10. In any delay on delivery of the Camperdown proposal what is the strategy and practical arrangement for the continuing use and operation of Dens Park over each of say 3, 5, 7-year periods or indeed indefinitely?

11. Should planning permission be refused or should the development fail to materialise for any other reason, what is the club’s Plan B position?

Chairman's Updates

Dee4Life New Year members’ update

Dear members,

Happy New Year and I hope you had a great festive period with family and friends.

The past month has brought both the exhilaration of late goals at Dingwall and Kilmarnock and the disappointment of the Aberdeen and St Johnstone postponements.

With regards to the latter, we know from correspondence from members how frustrating you have found the situation. Accordingly, we have written to the club’s Supporter Liaison Officer to try and better understand the underlying issues with the pitch and to offer any practical support we can to minimise the risk of future call offs. In this letter, we also reiterated our long-standing offer to support the introduction of eticketing at Dens Park.

December’s other major talking point was the new stadium image and additional details about the project released by the club. This has rightly generated a great deal of excitement and discussion amongst Dundee fans, and we welcome the stated commitment to ongoing consultation with supporters as the project develops. It was also reassuring to hear John Nelms restate that interim groundsharing is unlikely to be required.

The Dee4Life board has always believed this project could be transformative for Dundee but are also wary of any risks to the club and hope these concerns are fully addressed either in the forthcoming planning application in principle or as part of the related consultation.

20 years of Dee4Life

2024 marks the 20th anniversary of Dee4Life and I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the dozens of fans who have served on the Trust board in that time as well as the countless volunteers who have given up their own time to help ensure that the club has survived some of the most turbulent times in its history.

As you all know, Dee4Life arose from the incredible efforts of fans to save the club from liquidation back in 2003/04. The time and effort given by the Trust’s founders to galvanise fundraising efforts, attend interminable meetings and help prove Dundee was worth fighting for was incredible and all Dundee supporters owe them a debt of gratitude.

When the Dark Blues entered administration for the second time, the astonishing effort of fans – combined with the sacrifices of directors, staff and players – saved our beloved club once more. Dee4Life officials, volunteers and members had again given so much of themselves while asking for nothing in return and these efforts enabled Dundee to exit administration as a supporter-owned club.

The following two years were not without their difficulties, but no one should be in any doubt about how hard those running the club worked in difficult circumstances or that every decision was made according to what they believed was in the best interests of the club. Ultimately, they kept Dundee FC alive until a viable alternative appeared.

When we Dee4Life members voted to sell our majority shareholding to the club’s current owners we did so after the-then Trust board negotiated entrenched rights designed to protect the future of the club we all love.

The Trust’s fortunes have waxed and waned over the years, but dedicated fans continued to give up their own time to keep Dee4Life alive out of a belief that an independent fans’ voice is not only important but vital. We now mark our 20th anniversary with a growing membership and a determination amongst the current board to ensure that the views of all fans are heard at a pivotal time for our club.

The issue of an ageing stadium with limited commercial potential has plagued successive Dundee owners for decades. As well as acknowledging the stability brought by the current owners, we appreciate the scale of their ambitions. In our view, the best-case scenario is for the Camperdown development to succeed as envisaged. However, we must also be mindful of any situation that might put the club at risk again and seek all and any assurances that this project will not do this.

Custodianship of our entrenched rights is a responsibility that the Dee4Life board takes very seriously. The Trust was formed to not only fight the short-term threat to the club that existed back in January 2004 but to ensure that it would always have a future. That is why we must continue to ask questions about the health and direction of Dundee FC, even if doing so is not always universally popular.

Once again, I thank past and present Dee4Life directors, members, volunteers, donors and friends for everything they have done over the years. I hope that we can all look forward to a happy and prosperous 2024, on and off the park.

Regards,
Keith Winter (Chair)

Chairman's Updates

Dee4Life members’ update – November

Dear members,

November saw the 2023 Dee4Life AGM take place and there was a decent attendance with the formal business of the Trust concluded satisfactorily.

In the Q&A session of the meeting several matters arose for discussion. A particular point was on a message conveyed to the meeting by a DSA postholder and Dee4Life member. The essence of this message is that Dee4Life is not currently seen as a supportive organisation by the club, that our directors are not welcome at Gardyne and that all future communications should be routed through the club’s Supporter liaison Officer.

I therefore wrote to John Nelms seeking clarity on the message delivered via a third party. In response I was informed that “the Club is not willing to support a relationship with Dee4Life at this time”, the club referred to our September and October updates in which we explained the mechanism for delivering the agreement that FPS made when they bought the club as well as summarising the recent meeting with our local MSPs.

We confirmed that we have not threatened legal action and indeed made it known to members at the AGM that we, as a board, would not support this action. In our most recent communication with the club we emphasised our commitment to resolving this situation amicably while noting that we are well within our rights to seek assistance from our elected representatives or any other intermediaries to build a means of communication with the club as its largest minority shareholder.

Over the past couple of months, we have purchased covers to prevent the long-standing issues with dirty seats in the South Enclosure as well as making an introduction that will hopefully lead to the Dundee Academy CIC establishing a new educational partnership. It is our intention to continue to support the club’s development and initiatives that improve the matchday experience for fans. In parallel to this, however, we believe that a mechanism for all supporters to be able to ask questions of the club board is vital.

Dee4Life exists because of the mistakes of the past and we have a responsibility to members to try and ensure the club custodians deliver a positive future. The current board may feel that oversight is unnecessary given the commitment and investment they have made but this is something they agreed to when they took over the club. The founding principles of the Trust mean that we must continue to ask questions on behalf of supporters. The Trust need to find a means to do this for our members and we continue to investigate how this may best achieve this.

Finally, following on from a suggestion made at the AGM, a further meeting will be held in March 2024. We will announce further details on this in the New Year.

All the best to all member and their families for the forthcoming festive period, a successful and prosperous 2024, not least on the pitch for Tony Docherty and the team.

Regards,
Keith Winter, Chair

society updates

AGM update and new board member appointed

Dear members,

I would like to thank all of you who came along to Saturday’s AGM and contributed to an impassioned discussion about the club we all love.

As a board, it is important for us to listen to our members and to have them shape our future direction. We are currently reflecting on all that was said at the AGM and will share our thinking, and any other developments, in our regular update at the end of the month.

I would also like to take this opportunity to introduce Andrew Pyke, our newest board member.

New Dee4Life board member Andrew Pyke
New Dee4Life board member Andrew Pyke

Andrew brings with him a wealth of experience in market research having worked for a number of multinational companies. His career includes nearly five years as Insight Manager at the Scottish Football Association. While there, Andrew set up the SFA’s first ever Insight function, established marketing planning, worked with UEFA to establish benchmark measures for football in Scotland and led Scotland’s EURO 2020 evaluation group.

More importantly, Andrew is a lifelong Dundee fanatic who is a season-ticket holder for the Bobby Cox Stand and a member of the Glasgow Dees, We are excited about the energy and ideas he will bring to Dee4Life.

Regards,

Keith Winter (Chair)

Chairman's Updates

Dee4Life update – October

Dear members,

I write this update still on a high from Saturday’s away win at Livingston and our ascent into the top half of the table. Whatever happens against Rangers tonight, I think we can all be happy with how Tony Docherty’s side have adapted to life back in the Premiership.

Last week, we met with Dundee City MSPs Joe FitzPatrick and Shona Robison to ask for their assistance in resolving the impasse we have reached in our attempts to have the club board address concerns raised by Dee4Life members.

In our discussion, Joe and Shona emphasised how vitally important Dundee FC is to the city and that they understand Dee4Life is seeking only to ensure that the future of the club is secure. They are sympathetic to our efforts to have boardroom representation restored and appreciate the importance of fans being able to ask challenging questions when appropriate.

Joe and Shona have asked to meet with us again once we have consulted with our members at this month’s AGM and we thank them for taking the time to meet with us and consider what they can do to help.

As you know, Dee4Life’s entitlement to two board places was agreed when FPS took over the club 10 years ago and is enshrined in Dundee’s Articles of Association. A lot has happened in the past decade so it may well be that what was negotiated back then might not be the best option for all parties now. As we made clear to Joe and Shona, if the club have an alternative model in mind then we are open to discussing it, noting that members will have the final say on any proposed changes.

The current board may feel the idea of oversight unnecessary and unfair given the financial stability that FPS have brought. We acknowledge this stability and would far prefer to be collaborating with them for the benefit of Dundee but, in line with our founding principles and with the agreement made 10 years ago, Dee4Life has a duty to ask difficult questions on behalf of fans, especially around the proposed new stadium development.

As we communicated with you a few weeks ago, we were pleased to hear that the club owners currently have no plans to sell Dens Park and groundshare, following Dark Blues Property Holdings’ purchase of our historic home. We believe the club owners are doing what they see as being in the best interests of the club, but there are still many unanswered questions about the stadium project that need to be addressed.

Also in October, Dee4Life Directors met with the committee of the Dundee Supporters’ Association and robust discussions about recent development took place. We believe it is healthy for open conversations to take place between all parties who have the best interests of Dundee FC at heart, and we will meet with the DSA again in January.  

As recent communications from the club have shown, the DSA does a fantastic job of providing them with assistance and, as a long-standing Invergowrie Dark Blue, I know first-hand the work done to represent member clubs.

There is significant overlap between Dee4Life and DSA membership and, while our respective constitutions mean there are differences in the issues we will raise with the club board, we all want a Dundee that is successful on the park and secure off it.

I hope to see as many of you as possible at the AGM on Saturday 11 November (start time 11am in Dundee Social Club) and hope you can encourage family and friends to join us before then so they too can help shape our future.

Best wishes,

Keith Winter, Dee4Life Chair

Chairman's Updates

Dee4Life update – September

Dear members,

When Dee4Life directors pledged to do everything in their power to seek answers about the proposed new stadium development, it was made clear that diplomacy would have to be exhausted before a different course of action would be pursued.

Over the past year, we have been guided by legal advice and have asked for nothing beyond what FPS agreed to when they bought the club 10 years ago. We have sought help from intermediaries and offered to go to arbitration to establish a framework for fan representation. We produced a proposal that highlighted the ways we can help the club in return for them fulfilling their legal obligations. We demonstrated our willingness to work alongside the club and provided financial assistance for projects. Most recently, we requested a Q&A session so that outstanding stadium issues could be addressed.

We have worked hard to find an amicable solution but, with the club still failing to answer the perfectly reasonable questions put to them, we feel now is the time to appraise you of all that has happened to date.

Board nomination

In December 2022, we nominated Trust director Kenny Valentine to sit as our primary representative on the club board. The response, signed ‘Dundee Football Club Limited’, made clear this was regarded as a hostile act. Much of the anger appeared to be linked to the fact that a Dee4Life director had, while acting in a personal capacity, responded to the Camperdown statutory consultation by noting that they opposed the plan as it was presented at that time. We had restated Dee4Life’s position – support for the development subject to assurances about the risks facing the club – in our official response to the same consultation.

We immediately sought legal counsel and were advised to resolve the situation privately. Our lawyer wrote to the club noting that the concerns expressed were clearly those of an individual, reminding them that we had acted within our entrenched rights, and offering to meet with company secretary Lindsay Darroch to discuss next steps.

While it would have made our lives easier to outline every detail with you, we were advised that any public fallout would jeopardise any chance of progress. We ultimately took the view that to go public would be to fail our members by making it less likely that they received the answers they sought.

While discussions were ongoing between lawyers, Kenny met with club GM Greg Fenton and received confirmation that Dundee would be playing at Dens Park the following season. This didn’t answer all our questions, but it did address fears that we would be groundsharing for 2022/23.

Over the months that followed, some progress was made. Despite the language used in their response back in December, the club had not said they wouldn’t agree to a Dee4Life rep on the club board and, at this stage, the direction of travel seemed to be towards this happening.

Frustrated progress

Kenny and I (Dee4Life Chair Keith Winter) held robust and constructive discussions with John Nelms, emphasising why increased engagement was positive while pushing back firmly but professionally where appropriate.

An example of this came when we launched a survey in response to the club’s season ticket launch. Two hundred of you took the time to complete the survey and to ask other questions. Despite having agreed to provide answers to FAQs, the club then said they would prefer to answer them on the club’s channels so that all fans could be addressed simultaneously. We still await these answers.

By this time, we had finalised a formal proposal outlining how we saw a relationship between the club and the Trust working and this was sent to Dundee directors once the season ended. We called for several measures intended to increase engagement and communication, along the lines outlined in the club’s own Customer Charter. There were also examples of the ways in which we could help the club as part of a mutually respectful partnership.

While there was agreement in some areas – including willingness to take part in a Q&A – there was significant disagreement in others. Whereas discussion on the board place were of the ‘when, not if’ variety a few months ago, there now appeared to be a hardening of the club’s position. This culminated in us being told that attempts to have a Dee4Life rep appointed would continue to be resisted.

Q&A request

Over the past year, we have made clear that we sought a reset in relations with the club but the supposed actions of “individuals associated with Dee4Life” were repeatedly cited as reasons for the club’s reluctance to engage. With no movement on the board place we requested the Q&A that John Nelms had indicated he was willing to take part in. The response we received offered only a further meeting rather than direct discussions about the issues we had raised. We had previously been offered a Q&A with Tony Docherty but it would have been inappropriate to take part in this while we seek answers to the Camperdown questions.

It has been frustrating not to be able to share all we have been doing with members, but it was necessary that discussions remained confidential while there was a chance of diplomacy succeeding. We also had to be able to evidence the steps we had taken to resolve the impasse in a professional and amicable manner. Our aim was to be above reproach in all that we did.

Next steps

For obvious reasons it isn’t in our interests for the full legal advice we received to be in the public domain but, to summarise, the only way to enforce Dee4Life’s entrenched rights would be by raising legal action against the club. We don’t have inexhaustible funds but the majority of our reserves are ringfenced for legal action if it is ever required to fight a very clear threat to Dundee’s existence.

Our primary focus over the past year has been to fulfil the pledges we made at the last AGM and for fans to receive the information they deserve. The board rep nomination was a means to an end for us – that end being to get answers to the stadium questions and to ensure this kind of situation does not arise again. With club directors now explicitly saying they will block this move and with John Nelms now apparently unwilling to take part in a Q&A, it is now time to consider next steps.

We will be meeting with Dundee’s two constituency MSPs over the next few weeks to ask for their assistance in resolving this situation. We will update you on these talks and anticipate laying out the options available to us and recommending a course of action ahead at our AGM in November, at which point members will be able to vote on the direction we take.

We note today’s media reports about the imminent purchase of Dens Park by FPS and will consider the implications for the club as we obtain more information on the matter.

Keith Winter (Chair)

Chairman's Updates, society updates

Dee4Life – Monthly Update

Dear members,

Another season is upon us, and we look forward to seeing the Championship flag raised at Dens Park on Saturday. On behalf of the Dee4Life board, I would like to wish Tony Docherty and his players and staff all the best of the Premiership campaign ahead.

With a bumper crowd expected for the Motherwell match, we hope not to see any repeat of the lengthy queues at the club shop and turnstiles that have been a regular feature over the past year. This is the issue that members have contacted us about most frequently and we appreciate that work, family, and other commitments mean fans are often unable to purchase and collect tickets in advance or to turn up some time ahead of kick off.

A queue outside the Dundee Direct shop prior to the Inverness game.
A queue outside the Dundee Direct shop prior to the Inverness game.

Our Chair Keith Winter met with John Nelms last week and once again raised the possibility of introducing eticketing and/or a cash gate. The Trust previously offered to financially support the introduction of eticketing and this remains in place. Positive talks took place with the club on this matter but it appears that current contractual arrangements prevented it from being implemented for this season. On implementing a cash gate there remain some issues to address also, though this will again be followed up.

We appreciate some fans remain frustrated about this option being available in the away end and, when Keith raised this point, he was told that this only happens with clubs who cannot operate any online arrangement. We will continue to explore this issue and willing to help fund a short-term solution for season 2023/24 as it is one of our priorities to make it simpler and more appealing for supporters to attend games.

Dundee fans in the Bobby Cox Stand during a game last season.
Dens Park could see a bumper crowd this weekend. Image: Derek Gerrard Photography.

In our recent proposal to the club we outlined ways we can fulfil our key objectives and hope that the club fully engage with us in taking matters forward. I want to thank all of you who took the time to share feedback on the proposal, the vast majority of which was positive.

All our efforts with the club are geared towards fans receiving the information we believe they deserve. In line with our proposal, we would like a Q&A to take place where supporters’ representatives can ask questions relating to the proposed new stadium development and other matters of concern and interest to Dundee fans. The club expressed a willingness to hold such a forum earlier this year and we hope to bring you news on this shortly.

Grant Hill,

Vice Chair

Chairman's Updates

Dee4Life June news – proposal update

Dear Members,

I had my first meeting with Dundee FC Managing Director John Nelms as Dee4Life Chair last week and the proposal we submitted to the club in May was the main subject of discussion.

While there is alignment in some areas there remains a significant distance between the two parties in others and further talks aimed at reaching a formal agreement will be necessary.

We believe the Trust’s proposal – which members can read in its entirety here – is fair and has the potential to help our club prosper. While outlying several ways we can help Dundee’s development, it asks for nothing beyond what Dee4Life is legally entitled to as per the club’s Articles of Association and as outlined in its customer charter.

A huge amount of time and work has gone into rebuilding Dee4Life’s relationship with the club, the objective of which has been to create a vehicle for supporters’ views to be heard and respected at boardroom level whilst agreeing areas of activity the Trust can take in support of the club.

While that relationship has undoubtedly improved, we are fully aware that the most substantive concerns of Dundee supporters remain unanswered. We are giving diplomacy every chance to succeed and have been guided by legal advice throughout but if this path does not lead to the type of engagement we have sought then we anticipate consulting our members over alternative options.

We are keen to hear the views of as many of our members as possible about the proposal and efforts to have fan representation to the board reinstated so invite you to send feedback to contact@dee4life.com.
The more members we have, the more representative of the club’s support we are and the more influential the fans’ voice can be. Please encourage other Dark Blues to sign up.

Regards,
Keith Winter, Chair

Keith Winter, Dee4Life chair
Trust Update

New Dee4Life Chair appointed

Dear members,

I am delighted to tell you that Keith Winter has been appointed Dee4Life Chair.

Keith brings with him a wealth of professional experience having held senior positions in local authorities north and south of the border. Before retiring last year, Keith held the position of Executive Director of Enterprise and Environment at Fife Council.

His field of expertise is town planning and economic development and he holds non-executive directorships and other voluntary positions with a number of organisations.

New Dee4Life Chair Keith Winter.

Keith (above) impressed my fellow Dee4Life directors and I with his passion for Dundee and his desire to ensure that the voices of his fellow fans are heard by the club board.

Keith, who has followed Dundee since 1969 and is a member of the Invergowrie Dark Blues, said: “After discussions with representatives of the Trust, I was delighted to be offered the opportunity to fulfil the role of Chair particularly given my long association as a fan of The Dee.

“I hope to bring some of my experience from other roles and organisations engaged in partnership working. I will seek to achieve goals and common objectives, whilst representing the Trust in its purposes, engagement with, and support for Dundee Football Club and its supporters.”

Keith’s appointment was approved by the Dee4Life board at our meeting on Monday 1 May.

Minutes from this meeting will be available online shortly and further updates from the Trust will be shared at the conclusion of the season.

Keith takes on the role from Norrie Price who has stepped down but remains an active board member.

Regards,

Grant Hill (Vice-Chair)